I'm an idiot. I'm looking forward to reading this book so I can laugh at all the smart people expending so much energy and angst and being less happy than me.
I think I must belong to the "satisfied middle class" group. I'm from a relatively poor working-class background, but I had a good education and am a university graduate. I have few but close friends, a supportive family, and a job I enjoyed. I am now retired. At one point in my life, I took the MENSA test out of curiosity but although I qualified for membership, I didn't feel the need to join.
Similar story to mine. Measured twice in my early 20s and comfortably into the Mensa level. I don't think I've mentioned this to anybody since I was 25.
Satisfied Middle Class (into which I was born). Grammar School, Russell Group university, very happy in my very nerdy career, floating to the top of the well-paid technical area but subconsciously refusing to rise any further as I find fantastically complex IT systems easier to deal with than people. Retired now and playing with my grandchildren.
Um, I want to say, what a waste of ink. I have an IQ considered in the genius range and I’m perfectly happy. My feeling like an outsider, yes, it’s there, what that feeling might have to do with an IQ score, I don’t know. Maybe it’s because I have some quality related to being in that category, but I’m just a person trying to get by in the world like everyone else. The fact that my mind might work a bit faster than someone else’s, well, we’re all different and we all have our individual strengths and weaknesses. I’ve read some truly ignorant comments about smart people being arrogant because everything came easily. What a joke! We with high IQs have our own challenges, and mine have been pretty extreme. It’s kept me quite humble. Anyway, this is just more silliness when there are much more dire and important topics to be discussing.
I’ve been a member of both Mensa and Triple Nine for nearly 30 years, and watched the extreme IQ wars for all that time, not very sure I wanted to be an insider there, either. The article is insightful, and I’ve sent it to a couple of friends as soon as I read it this morning.
What makes me an outlier in the “outsider” sense is not a measured level of intelligence. It’s that I decided to spend nearly a half century educating two even lower incidence groups: children born blind/visually impaired or born deaf/hard of hearing. I have stayed under the radar intelligence-wise by talking about these kiddos, and about deafblind kiddos, an even lower incidence population with extreme learning challenges.
Just last night at dinner a brilliant young blind friend and two other friends were talking with me about the near-impossible challenge of accurately assessing a child who is blind or deaf and gifted. Think about it: if we cannot truly assess with confidence sighted and hearing children, how much in the test items will children who are deaf, blind, or deafblind lack for the response to the test items?
An IQ test developer with an IQ of 120 cannot measure an IQ above 120. With no comparable experience, they cannot possibly understand those who are prodigious.
Genius and passion for understanding are inseparable.
I'll have to read the entire book, but what is the gist of this piece in particular? Is there offense at people using the term genius who don't meet a certain criteria (and what is that, explicitly?)
Well, I just destroyed my own comment, which shows the limits of genius, eh? I will try again.
I knew Grady and still have my correspondence with him. I met him through Gift of Fire, the journal of the Prometheus Society in the 1980s. I was in for three years and was even president for one. I was in a couple of other groups those years as well. Please note: Mensa is not one of the ultras. Grady's division of the ultra-highs into three groups has a lot going for it. I know some of each. I remember when Grady came out with "The Outsiders" with particular reference to outsider William James Sidis, he of the supposed highest IQ ever. (Not true, BTW.) I have written about Grady, Sidis, IQ myths and facts, arrogance and humility, tie-ins with Aspergers/HFA/ autism, etc for many years at my blogsite Assistant Village Idiot. These are not my most frequent topics of discussion, but the posts have added up over the years. Come on over and use the search bar. I try to be entertaining, and I have exceptional commenters.
You are representing one of the many sides of the discussion, but I would note that there are other sides that have considerable evidence behind them as well. There is now excellent discussion and argument to be had in many places online. Things can very quickly deteriorate into people trying to attack the worst representatives of another POV, and in particular, imputing psychological problems as opponents motives for believing what they believe. I simply reject the Bulverism of saying "they only believe that because they are a man/woman, have a high score/don't have a high score." People have their own narratives about what is "smart," "success," "genius," etc and in my experience do not allow the facts to confuse them in any way. They double down.
I was a psychiatric social worker and made my daily bread by picking up what people were saying/not saying. That means agencies, clinicians, patients, families, landlords, police - everyone. Though I have heard arrogant ultras who disdained the lesser, it is much more common to hear or read people who want to take them down. Go to Quora, Reddit, popular press, and even academic sites and you will be deluged by people aching to get on and tell you that "IQ people aren't so smart - why I knew one who was a real prick and couldn't remember to put the trash out every Wednesday..." and tell you self-serving stories about who are the Real Smart Ones. Their disdain far exceeds that of the ultras. Most of the ultras are very open about the necessity of multiple other abilities to accomplish goals, and have an ability to laugh at themselves. Not so the attackers.
Thanks. Excellent. And thanks for passing me on to the fascinating New Yorker piece about Kathryn Paige Harden, which I’d missed but am currently listening to.
My son is a “Bill” he goes to a school full of Bills and their female equivalents. The most dramatic event of his senior year wasn’t a test or a college application it was when one of his female friends told him she liked him. That one moment sparked a full week of intense analysis: the difference between friends and girlfriends, what it really means to “like” someone, and how hormones might cloud his judgment. It included pros and cons lists, deep conversations, and some very uncharacteristic emotional distress. I never realized dating could feel like a science or sociology experiment until I watched my son.
I'm an idiot. I'm looking forward to reading this book so I can laugh at all the smart people expending so much energy and angst and being less happy than me.
I think I must belong to the "satisfied middle class" group. I'm from a relatively poor working-class background, but I had a good education and am a university graduate. I have few but close friends, a supportive family, and a job I enjoyed. I am now retired. At one point in my life, I took the MENSA test out of curiosity but although I qualified for membership, I didn't feel the need to join.
Sounds like you’ve hit the perfect sweet spot
Similar story to mine. Measured twice in my early 20s and comfortably into the Mensa level. I don't think I've mentioned this to anybody since I was 25.
Satisfied Middle Class (into which I was born). Grammar School, Russell Group university, very happy in my very nerdy career, floating to the top of the well-paid technical area but subconsciously refusing to rise any further as I find fantastically complex IT systems easier to deal with than people. Retired now and playing with my grandchildren.
A good life!
I hope your book tour eventually takes you to Edinburgh!
Um, I want to say, what a waste of ink. I have an IQ considered in the genius range and I’m perfectly happy. My feeling like an outsider, yes, it’s there, what that feeling might have to do with an IQ score, I don’t know. Maybe it’s because I have some quality related to being in that category, but I’m just a person trying to get by in the world like everyone else. The fact that my mind might work a bit faster than someone else’s, well, we’re all different and we all have our individual strengths and weaknesses. I’ve read some truly ignorant comments about smart people being arrogant because everything came easily. What a joke! We with high IQs have our own challenges, and mine have been pretty extreme. It’s kept me quite humble. Anyway, this is just more silliness when there are much more dire and important topics to be discussing.
I’ve been a member of both Mensa and Triple Nine for nearly 30 years, and watched the extreme IQ wars for all that time, not very sure I wanted to be an insider there, either. The article is insightful, and I’ve sent it to a couple of friends as soon as I read it this morning.
What makes me an outlier in the “outsider” sense is not a measured level of intelligence. It’s that I decided to spend nearly a half century educating two even lower incidence groups: children born blind/visually impaired or born deaf/hard of hearing. I have stayed under the radar intelligence-wise by talking about these kiddos, and about deafblind kiddos, an even lower incidence population with extreme learning challenges.
Just last night at dinner a brilliant young blind friend and two other friends were talking with me about the near-impossible challenge of accurately assessing a child who is blind or deaf and gifted. Think about it: if we cannot truly assess with confidence sighted and hearing children, how much in the test items will children who are deaf, blind, or deafblind lack for the response to the test items?
How fascinating and witty! Already preordering the book :-)
I’ve got tickets for July 17th! Just wondering if we can purchase copies of your book at the events too?
At the ones in bookshops and IQ Squared, definitely. But I’m not sure if Dr Johnson’s House has a bookseller so you might be better off buying first.
Great thanks
Loved the extract, looking forward to reading the rest.
An IQ test developer with an IQ of 120 cannot measure an IQ above 120. With no comparable experience, they cannot possibly understand those who are prodigious.
Genius and passion for understanding are inseparable.
I'll have to read the entire book, but what is the gist of this piece in particular? Is there offense at people using the term genius who don't meet a certain criteria (and what is that, explicitly?)
Hope you come further North than that on a book tour. Edinburgh book festival?
NFI!
Bah!
Well, I just destroyed my own comment, which shows the limits of genius, eh? I will try again.
I knew Grady and still have my correspondence with him. I met him through Gift of Fire, the journal of the Prometheus Society in the 1980s. I was in for three years and was even president for one. I was in a couple of other groups those years as well. Please note: Mensa is not one of the ultras. Grady's division of the ultra-highs into three groups has a lot going for it. I know some of each. I remember when Grady came out with "The Outsiders" with particular reference to outsider William James Sidis, he of the supposed highest IQ ever. (Not true, BTW.) I have written about Grady, Sidis, IQ myths and facts, arrogance and humility, tie-ins with Aspergers/HFA/ autism, etc for many years at my blogsite Assistant Village Idiot. These are not my most frequent topics of discussion, but the posts have added up over the years. Come on over and use the search bar. I try to be entertaining, and I have exceptional commenters.
You are representing one of the many sides of the discussion, but I would note that there are other sides that have considerable evidence behind them as well. There is now excellent discussion and argument to be had in many places online. Things can very quickly deteriorate into people trying to attack the worst representatives of another POV, and in particular, imputing psychological problems as opponents motives for believing what they believe. I simply reject the Bulverism of saying "they only believe that because they are a man/woman, have a high score/don't have a high score." People have their own narratives about what is "smart," "success," "genius," etc and in my experience do not allow the facts to confuse them in any way. They double down.
I was a psychiatric social worker and made my daily bread by picking up what people were saying/not saying. That means agencies, clinicians, patients, families, landlords, police - everyone. Though I have heard arrogant ultras who disdained the lesser, it is much more common to hear or read people who want to take them down. Go to Quora, Reddit, popular press, and even academic sites and you will be deluged by people aching to get on and tell you that "IQ people aren't so smart - why I knew one who was a real prick and couldn't remember to put the trash out every Wednesday..." and tell you self-serving stories about who are the Real Smart Ones. Their disdain far exceeds that of the ultras. Most of the ultras are very open about the necessity of multiple other abilities to accomplish goals, and have an ability to laugh at themselves. Not so the attackers.
You can see examples of it here.
Thanks for the comment, David. What I encountered of Grady through his writing made me think he was a kind, reflective and thoughtful person.
Thanks. Excellent. And thanks for passing me on to the fascinating New Yorker piece about Kathryn Paige Harden, which I’d missed but am currently listening to.
Her book is good, too. I interviewed her for Intelligence Squared about it, that might be online somewhere
Thanks. Will hunt.
Congrats on the book!
This piece pairs well with the New Yorker profile of Curtis Yarvin.
lol, yes. His ex talking about having baby geniuses with him. I bet their kid grows up to be perfect and average.
My son is a “Bill” he goes to a school full of Bills and their female equivalents. The most dramatic event of his senior year wasn’t a test or a college application it was when one of his female friends told him she liked him. That one moment sparked a full week of intense analysis: the difference between friends and girlfriends, what it really means to “like” someone, and how hormones might cloud his judgment. It included pros and cons lists, deep conversations, and some very uncharacteristic emotional distress. I never realized dating could feel like a science or sociology experiment until I watched my son.